My wife and I have been searching for a church home in our area for months. We’ve attended scores of churches but can’t find a fit.
We aren’t looking for perfection, but we are so uncomfortable sitting through most church services that we’re in despair that we’ll ever find another home church.
Kim and I visited still another church yesterday.
The congregation is a church plant that meets at an elementary school.
When Kim and I arrived at the school, I was shocked at how few cars were in the parking lot. The Mother Church, about thirty minutes away, is a megachurch so I would have thought that the new church would have had a larger core group.
The church had the requisite banners, donuts, and coffee before the service. The atmosphere was anything but festive. When Kim and I entered the small auditorium, I was shocked again at how few people were present at the starting time of 10:30 am. We sat in a back row. Quickly looking at the makeup of the congregation, I whispered to Kim, “We don’t fit here.”
Kim later told me she wanted to leave multiple times.
The worship leader was a woman wearing weird glasses and although she had a good voice, hardly anybody was singing, even as the room gained more worshipers. As she sang, she waved her hands in strange ways. I felt very anxious.
The church celebrated its one-year anniversary a week or two ago, and in my view, they aren’t doing well. The pastor talked about his three-year vision of hundreds of attendees and dozens of small groups (possibly reflecting the expectations of the Mother Church), but based on what happened yesterday, I don’t see that occurring. At one point, I counted less than fifty people in the room.
The auditorium was mostly darkened with light on the stage coming from the back of the room. The pastor told us that he’s thirty years old, and when he set up his podium to preach, it was tilted diagonally and positioned out of the light. As he spoke, he pranced all over the stage … into the light, then out of the light, then into the light … throughout the whole service. He spoke for a solid hour.
At one point, he walked down our aisle and stood near Kim, who was seated a few feet away. We both squirmed in our seats.
This is the third church in a row we’ve attended where the speaker talks as fast as possible. The first two churches ended up being charismatic churches (the pastor at the second church sang in tongues for a few minutes before his sermon). I don’t think the church we attended today is charismatic, but I can’t be sure. The websites of most churches don’t identify their worship style or their distinctive beliefs.
When we entered the auditorium, we were handed a folder of “sermon notes.” While my folder had some notes inside, Kim’s was blank. The outside of the folder contained one word: MESSY.
And that pretty much described the sermon. It was a mess. While the pastor read some notes that he had included in the folder, I couldn’t discern any structure … or many coherent thoughts.
But that wasn’t the main problem.
The pastor spoke in a stream-of-consciousness style … as fast as he could. So fast that he could not, in my view, think about the next thing he was going to say. This resulted in his repeating himself over and over again:
“If you’ve been through a divorce … if you’ve been separated recently … if you have financial problems …” And a few minutes later, he’d utter the same lines.
About 2/3 of the way through his sermon, the pastor told us that when his child was born last December, his wife contracted postpartum depression, and he said he’s been having a hard time handling their child’s teething episodes as well.
And I thought to myself, “Today’s sermon is titled ‘Messy?’ I don’t like saying this, but you’re a mess.”
He began talking faster and faster and louder and louder. I thought he was going to self-destruct in front of us. When he ended his sermon, he ranted loudly during his prayer. At one point, I softly cried, “God, make it stop. Make it stop.”
The pastor offered two responses after his sermon, and evidently some people raised their hands for salvation and some kind of dedication, although I could not follow his train of thought.
When the sermon mercifully ended, Kim and I practically ran out of the auditorium, and on the way to the car I told her, “He’s sick. That man is not well. He’s ready to have a breakdown.”
I don’t think I’ve ever said that about a pastor after a sermon before.
I went to the church website to see if they offer any recordings of the pastor’s sermons, but they don’t.
A well-known pastor in nearby Chino Hills committed suicide recently. He was only thirty years old and left behind a wife and two children. Even though he received months – if not years – of psychological care, he killed himself anyway … inside the church building. I’ve been thinking about that situation for weeks.
So maybe I’m reading that tragedy into yesterday’s service … I don’t know. While I’m not a mental health expert, I’m very concerned about this pastor, and fear that he’s headed for a breakdown, if he wasn’t having one during yesterday’s service.
I was so upset by the service – especially the sermon – that I wanted to break into tears on our short drive home.
I’d like to ask my readers two questions:
What, if anything, should I do about this situation?
Let it go? Talk to someone at the Mother Church? Just pray about it? We’re certainly not returning.
Is it trendy for pastors to speak at a lightning speed? If so, why?
It makes my wife and me highly anxious.
Thanks so much for any counsel you can offer me.
Jim, Let it go? In a manner of speaking yes. Recognize that you have absolutely no control over the situation. That being said, God does have control so it’s best to talk to Him about it. Unfortunately the mother church may not be any help. You might send the pastor that you saw a very brief email saying that you attended his church and you understand first hand the stresses of being a pastor and that you’re praying for him. Do what you can to help but keep healthy boundaries so you won’t get pulled into his downward spiral if he’s in one. Hope this helps.
LikeLike
Thanks, Pam. I appreciate your perspective. I don’t want to cause anyone any sorrow. If I saw some older, experienced leaders inside the church yesterday, I’d figure, “They’ll know what is normal for him and what isn’t and someone will talk with him.” But I didn’t see anyone like that around. And if the church put his sermon online, I’d figure that someone from the Mother Church would hear it and talk with him, but his sermons aren’t online. He was imploding emotionally far beyond what I’ve ever seen before, and it was painful to watch.
LikeLike
Dear Dr. Jim and Kim,
Thank you for sharing what you experienced in a church service yesterday. How the Pastor communicated is somehow wanting. Effective communication is what people receive and understand from a person speaking or delivering a message. I have also noticed most Pastors preach out of frustration mostly from family challenges or denominational feuds.
Don’t give up in the fullness of time you will land to a church you can call a home church. According to me God is preparing you to locate a church and by His grace,you start mentoring that Pastor. I’m praying for you and Mum Kim over this on a serious note. God is never late patiently wait on Him and will definitely show up.
Jones
LikeLike
Thanks so much for your kind words, Jones. We have actually had three home churches in our area over the six years we’ve lived here, but we’ve felt compelled to leave over some very good reasons. Finding a church home in America is not an easy process, and it’s a bit more difficult due to the area in which we live. Our two children both attend wonderful churches, and we have visited them several times, but they are much too far away to attend regularly. Thank you for your prayers!
LikeLike
When I read this, I felt you should contact that pastor and say something like: “I’m a former pastor and I currently work with pastors who are dealing with different difficulties. You said some things in the sermon that concerned me and I wondered if you were having some personal difficulties.” You might want to mention the comment about the baby. Then urge him to seek out some help if he is having problems. I believe you should contact the lead pastor of the mother church and let him know what you observed. ( I can’t say anything about the super fast talking; I’ve not experienced that and would not like it.)
LikeLike
Thanks for your input, Laura. I can confidently say that his sermon was bizarre compared to 95% of the sermons I’ve heard in my life, but I don’t know if his sermon was bizarre for him. I mentioned in another comment that his delivery was almost manic and it alarmed me. So far, it’s running about five to one that I should contact the Mother Church. I’ll see!
LikeLike
Jim,
Because this pastor’s behavior was so concerning, I think I would visit the Mother Church to get an idea of their preaching style (or listen online) to see if the church plant preacher is mimicking their style (it doesn’t seem likely, but I would make sure first). If not, then I would talk to someone at the Mother Church. This pastor may need intervention, but I am also concerned about the congregation,.
I wonder why the Mother Church doesn’t already know that they have such an erratic pastor, but whatever the reason is, they need to be told. There is a lot at stake.
As far as his style being trendy, I don’t think so. I could be wrong, but I really think that more relaxed styles are trending in order to help the congregation receive the message, not make them anxious.
Ce Ce
LikeLike
Thanks for your thoughts, Ce Ce. Kim and I visited the Mother Church on the first Easter after we’d moved to this area, and we hated it. They had a Vegas-style opening number that was kind of sickening, and rather than talking about the resurrection, the pastor talked about the trial of Jesus. But they certainly packed them in! What concerned me yesterday is that Kim and I were probably the oldest people there and I didn’t see any older, more experienced leaders around. I also wonder if the original core group is gone (in some church plants, they only commit to the first six months) and if the pastor feels like a failure because the church hasn’t taken off, which it definitely hasn’t. I would define his style yesterday as almost manic. I have preached under stress before, but because I manuscripted my sermons, I could always put forth a coherent message. But this guy went off the rails yesterday and I didn’t know if it was normal or not. Thanks again!
LikeLike
The sincere concern you have for this man is obvious. In addition, your concerns seem well founded. The pressure and expectations of hundreds of people by now could be weighing on him. It sounds like a manic desperation the way you describe it. I wonder if he is a new pastor..one without a good mentor. Perhaps you could make an appointment with him and if God opens the door, just focus your discussion with him on the things you know so well–hurting pastors…unrealistic expectations and lack of support, etc. Ask if he is doing ok. This might not be something you want to do..so maybe you could contact the mother church expressing your oving concern. I will pray for him. My regards to you and Kim. I hope you are able to find a church where you can feel comfortable. Terri
LikeLike
Thanks s much for your thoughts. I would probably be more comfortable contacting the Mother Church than contacting the pastor personally. He would probably say that he was doing fine and that would be the end of it. Most pastors can’t admit they’re unwell to themselves, much less to strangers! Right now, most people are saying that I should contact the Mother Church. My concern is that if he resigns or returns to the Mother Church, the church plant will die, but it may be dying anyway. Better that a church die than that the pastor goes down.
LikeLike
I agree, Jim. I really, like everyone who responded here, am concerned for the pastor. And unfortunately, you are right that the pastor would put up a front that all is well. The church plant will most likely not thrive unless he gets some help. Thank you for your loving concern for him.
LikeLike
Thanks for your thoughts, Sue. In the end, I’ve decided to let it go. If I contact the Mother Church, they’re going to look me up online and may find a reason to discredit me. It’s a risk I’m unwilling to take. A pastor friend told me that some young pastors are using a speaking style where they speak really fast. If that’s what this pastor was doing, then it may be a style issue … although I thought it was much more than that!
Jim
LikeLike
You should probably speak to someone at the mother church. You speak from a place of authority and experience. Share with them your concerns and hand that burden over to them.
LikeLike
Hi Dave, Thanks for reading my article and for your counsel. I appreciate it!
Jim
LikeLike
Jim,
Yikes, I am sorry about the experience you had at that church. I think you’re right – he needs help. I think feedback from you would be helpful, but maintain good boundaries. Your instincts are telling you to be on your guard with him. That sounds wise.
LikeLike
Thanks for your thoughts. In the end, I decided against any kind of intervention. The time to say something was as we were leaving the service that day, but I didn’t see anyone around who looked like a leader. I received a variety of responses to the article from “do nothing” to “offer to be a mentor” but I visited that Sunday as a guest, not a pastor, so as a guest I just choose not to return. Hopefully someone from the Mother Church is monitoring matters.
Jim
LikeLike