Jesus was once accused of being a liar … being suicidal … being a half-breed … and being demon-possessed (twice).
And then a group of religious leaders picked up stones to kill Him.
All this occurs in the same chapter: John 8.
The Savior’s enemies made the following similar but incredible statements about Him:
“Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan [half-Jew, half-Gentile] and demon-possessed?” (John 8:48)
“Now we know that you are demon-possessed!” (John 8:52)
And then the leaders ask Jesus in verse 53, “Who do you think you are?”
When Jesus walked this earth, some religious leaders believed that He was evil … and yet Scripture says that Jesus was “without sin.”
Why bring this up?
Because I deal with staff members and church leaders who write to me and talk to me and have come to this conclusion:
Their pastor is evil.
Are there evil pastors?
There might be. I’m not sure that I’ve ever met one.
Yes, some pastors commit evil deeds.
And yes, some pastors are dysfunctional … have personality disorders … suffer from depression … and have areas of incompetence.
But does that mean that their character is evil?
Let me share with you four quick truths about so-called evil pastors:
First, some pastors are difficult to figure out.
I’ve heard a few pastors preach sermons that made little sense to me. Their messages were disorganized and didn’t flow. They made points that I couldn’t grasp. They seemed to revel in creative interpretations that I didn’t think were justified.
But that doesn’t mean they were evil … just incoherent at the time I heard them.
I’ve worked with a few board members who couldn’t understand the direction I wanted to take the church. No matter how hard I labored, they couldn’t mentally envision the kind of church I had in mind.
But their lack of understanding didn’t make me evil.
However, in the case of several board members, when they couldn’t understand me, they labeled me “dangerous” and felt justified in harming my ministry.
Jesus could be hard to figure out, too … but did that make Him dangerous?
Please remember: Just because you don’t understand a pastor’s sermons or plans doesn’t make him evil.
Second, some pastors believe they must obey the Lord before they obey the board.
Jesus said in John 4:34: “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.”
The night before He died, Jesus told His Father in John 17:4: “I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.”
Jesus’ ministry agenda came from His Father, not from His disciples. He was always conscious of what the Father wanted Him to do, while Jesus tended to ignore the agendas of His friends, followers, and foes.
Like most pastors, when I was ordained to the gospel ministry, I promised to preach “the whole counsel of God.”
For me, this meant that I was duty bound to preach from the entire Bible … never to avoid difficult topics … and to speak prophetically about the issues of our day.
In one church I served as pastor, an ex-board member – who had left the church a year before – decided to visit a Sunday service … and railed against me afterwards.
My sin?
He felt that I was “preaching at him” … so he immediately began a campaign to get rid of me as pastor.
He never considered that the Holy Spirit was trying to speak to him … and even warn him … not to attack me.
Sometimes I’m shocked by how often a board member concludes, “Since the pastor stubbornly disagrees with me on this issue, I’m going to get him.”
Please remember: Just because your pastor disagrees with you doesn’t make him evil because in his mind, he’s simply obeying the Lord.
Third, some pastors are viewed suspiciously because they offended a leader’s friend(s).
Have you ever been a supervisor?
Imagine that you’re supervising an employee who has clearly been insubordinate to you. So you call him into your office and warn him not to do it again.
He immediately goes to four of his friends in the company and says that you’ve been mistreating him … but you aren’t aware of what he’s saying.
I’ve had this precise scenario happen to me as a pastor … only the person I supervised was a staff member.
Even though church bylaws stated that the senior pastor was responsible for supervising ministry staff members … when a staff member didn’t like what I said to him or her, rather than submit to my authority … they would invariably find a board member and complain to him about me.
The biblical way for the board member to handle such a situation is to say to the staff member, “Let’s go talk to the pastor about this right now.”
But the board member usually wouldn’t do that. Instead, he and the staff member would form an alliance together … both agreeing on one thing:
The senior pastor must be evil because he wounded the staff member.
But the real evil here is that the board member was seduced by the staff member into taking the staff member’s side without ever talking with the pastor.
In this scenario, it’s crucial that the board member circle back and speak with the senior pastor because (a) the staff member might be exaggerating the situation, or (b) the staff member might be lying as a way of retaliating against the pastor.
Please remember: just because a staff member tells someone that the pastor mistreated him doesn’t mean it’s so.
Finally, some pastors have become special targets of Satan.
Years ago, I saw a Christian film called Whitcomb’s War. While the production values were rather crude, the film’s message still rings true.
Pastor Whitcomb arrives as the new pastor of a troubled church. As he sets up his office upstairs, demons begin setting up their headquarters in the church basement.
Much of the time, the demons didn’t intend to attack the pastor directly … but to attack him through individuals in the church.
As a pastor, I’ve been attacked by people outside the church and inside the church.
When you’re attacked by people outside the church … like city planners or church neighbors … the congregation tends to unite together in purpose and in prayer.
But when you’re attacked by people inside the church … especially board and staff members … the congregation tends to follow the person they like/know best and division results.
And all the while, Satan laughs.
Jesus told His opponents in John 8:44:
“You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”
Even though Jesus hadn’t done anything wrong in God’s eyes, once His opponents labeled Him as being demonic … and thus evil … they felt justified in destroying Him.
And even when a pastor is innocent before God, if a few detractors label him as evil, they feel justified in using every weapon in their arsenal to run him out of their church.
Please remember: just because a pastor’s detractors call him evil does not provide justification for destroying him personally or professionally.
In case you haven’t noticed, I’m trying to get Christian churches to wake up to this important point:
The way Christian leaders treat each other in private will eventually affect the congregation in public.
What are your thoughts about what I’ve written?
Restoring Kingdom Builders 
More great thoughts on a sobering subject. As I read your comments an initial thought came to mind. How incredible it is that some in church circles will so easily label their own pastor as evil while, at the same time, finding little ‘real’ evil in their culture, family members, closest friends and their own lives. In addition, many of these clergy critics may talk at length about the destructive external evils assaulting their culture but, do very little to ever counter or confront those things that are so clearly taught against in Scripture. If the focus today in the church was more on the abundance true evil, and the true biblical solution for it, just maybe there would be far less focus on attacking the servants of God – the very ones who have been uniquely called and gifted to teach, inspire and lead their flocks in these evil and perilous last days!
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You’re so right, Bill. Makes you think that such critics have a problem with (a) God as Father, (b) the pastor as father figure, or (c) someone in authority. There’s a mythology – one that pastors unfortunately help perpetuate – that pastors are people who will never, ever fight back when they’re attacked. So some people – really angry at God or others – pour out all their wrath on their pastor, unaware of who they’re really angry with. I felt this wrath at times, especially from staff members who didn’t get along with their dads and heard his voice when I spoke. And you’re exactly right – many people who attack their pastor ignore evil in their own family or their own lives but sure find every little sin they can in their pastor. Thanks for contributing to the discussion, Bill!
Jim
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I appreciate your take on this sensitive subject. For 34 years I have served as a Pastor, and have from time to time been perceived as evil by some people. Such a perception is very hurtful to someone who just wanted to do good, but with rime I have learned to understand the limited nature of our own perspectives. The easy answer is to just call them evil as well but it is not so simple. Thanks for you take on this issue.
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Hi Irvin,
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Isn’t it amazing that a pastor like yourself – called and equipped by God – would be labeled as “evil” by a professing Christian?
4% of the general population – 1 in 25 people – have personality disorders … and the percentage may be higher than that now. A lot of these people are sociopathic. They charm their way into church leadership positions and then wreak havoc on the church and pastor because … sociopaths must win at all costs. Sometimes we pastors put sociopathic individuals into leadership … not knowing who they really are … and then from their position in the inner circle, they proceed to try and destroy their pastor. Most of us were not taught this reality in seminary!
I might think that someone in a church is evil, but I still need to treat him/her like a brother or a sister. We label people too quickly sometimes. But I have met some CKs … clergy killers … and they can be very dangerous. They will lie … slander … destroy … anything to get their way … and the sad truth, Irvin, is that CHRISTIANS ALLOW THIS BEHAVIOR TO OCCUR. Sometimes it’s not the bullies who are at fault … it’s the body of Christ that lets this stuff happen.
May God richly bless you … and feel free to comment anytime!
Jim
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Calling a pastor evil is probably crossing the line.
On the other hand, there has been many pastors who are there to do their own will rather than God’s. They manipulate, lie, bully, threaten to ex-communicate people who question them, will not listen to advice, play politics, even create half truths and leak them in the church so that rumours about certain people spread. Are they evil? Perhaps wolves in sheep’s clothing is a more gracious description. But in God’s eye these are acts of the flesh that certainly did not come from the Holy Spirit’s leading.
I’ve come across a pastor who fabricated lies about a member so that he won’t be nominated into the board. He uses the sermons to make sniding remarks at targeted individuals – you can spot these because of the personal details of the remarks and that it has nothing to do with the sermon passage. He has been doing this for over 10 years with no remorse because it has been a successful tactic to drive people out of the church.
There are good pastors who’s aim is to feed the flock, and there are those who are there to build their own puny kingdom and trampling on the sheep who gets in their way is just part of the job.
I sympathize with those genuine shepherds who are attacked by the sheep, but not those who give lip service to feeding God’s flock. And it is this lot of manipulative pastors who give genuine shepherds such a bad name. As a result, many Christians are no longer going to church because they are sick of the ‘country clubs’ church created by immature pastors. .
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I appreciate your comments. There are pastors who use worldly and manipulative tactics inside their churches, and someone needs to confront them about their counterproductive methodologies. When pastors act in an evil fashion unchecked, key church leaders like staff members and board members start resigning. If the word gets out about the pastor’s unhealthy dealings, people usually start leaving the church as well. So if a pastor is acting in an evil manner, he’s usually found out.
However, the odds are far greater that sheep will attack their shepherd than that a shepherd will attack his sheep. No matter how loving and understanding a pastor is, there are always people who despise the pastor and try and convince others in their network to feel the same way. I know a sweet, kind man who was a pastor in three churches, and was forced to leave each one. He is now out of the ministry … not because he did anything wrong, but because he wasn’t strong enough to stand up to church bullies, of which, sad to say, there are many.
Pastors are fallible and make mistakes. God only uses imperfect people. And yes, pastors who consistently sin should be asked to repent … and if they don’t, they should be asked to resign. But too many churches allow individuals or groups to terrorize their pastor … and when the pastor does respond, he doesn’t handle it very well.
Anyway, that’s my two cents worth. Thank you so much for writing! Come visit me again.
Jim
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Its difficult to confront such a pastor as he has filled the church board with all his supporters regardless of whether they are spiritually mature or not. If anyone dares to raise an issue with the pastor, they are accused of plotting against the pastor and causing disunity. People have been forced out of the church for daring to rock the boat.
The only option is to leave, as others have done over the years. How much damage to the flock this person has done is hard to tell.
I’m aware that getting rid of a bad pastor even for legitimate reasons will create so much bad feelings that the local church will never recover fully from.
Sadly, leaving is the only option and then trust that the Righteous Judge of the world will grant them repentance. I can now understand why John the Baptist call many of the religious leaders a brood of vipers.
On the topic of pastors who are criticized by members, sometimes there are real reasons that the pastor cannot see himself or simply refuses to see.
I know of a pastor who preaches the gospel every Sunday. Nothing wrong with gospel preaching. But if the message is the same every Sunday, and the church are all believers, when is he going to starting teaching the church? When this was raised, he got mad and accused people of not supporting gospel preaching.
One fault I see with many pastors is the issue of pride. Have you ever tried to tell a pastor that he is wrong and actually hear him admit it?
The younger ones will, but older ones tend to rationalise rather than admit error.
Some pastors just cannot deal with issues and regard questions as personal attacks or threats to their jobs instead of putting the issue on the table and talking about it. So much insecurities. Why not just trust the Lord instead – no one can move a pastor until God allows. Unless he has never been called in the first place and pastoral position is just another job to him.
So we have bad pastors and bad members everywhere – not what the church should be. We have departed so far from the NT model. I write not to criticize pastors, but to grieve over what we have become due to the failure of our under-shepherds to lead and to teach. The flock starves, and the flock have been scattered. (Ezekiel 34).
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I believe in strong pastoral leadership and in church boards that are loyal to their pastor. Growing churches are almost always blessed with a strong pastor and a board that supports him publicly.
But as Christians, there is one authority that is higher than a pastor or his supporters, and that is the written Word of God. If a pastor or board is clearly violating Scripture, then they need to be called on it.
I believe that pastors and boards should be open about almost everything in the church. They should share as much information as people want. Church leaders should never divulge confidential information about people’s personal problems, but other than that, they need to be transparent.
It’s true that not just some, but that many pastors are insecure. The nature of the pastorate easily leads to insecurity. You’re always one day away from losing your career. That’s often what leads to all the secrecy. I am not trying to justify it … just trying to explain it.
It’s perfectly legitimate to get rid of a “bad pastor” … it just needs to be done according to Scripture, the church constitution/bylaws, and the law. The bylaws of many churches specify how that is to be done.
Many pastors are thin-skinned because most pastors are sensitive individuals. They are “feelers.” And feelers get easily hurt. It’s okay to criticize feelers … just do it in a way they can receive it.
I agree with you about pastors and pride. That’s why I wrote two articles on the subject two years ago: https://blog.restoringkingdombuilders.org/2012/05/30/the-great-sin-of-pastors/
It’s a heady thing to tell people how to live their lives … and one must do so confidently and yet humbly … which is a difficult tightrope to walk.
When I preached, I admitted my humanity along with mistakes I made. I didn’t want people to put me on a pedestal. But some people demand that their pastor be perfect … or else they want to get rid of him. It’s really tiring trying to live up to everyone’s expectations.
One time, I preached a sermon on sex inside marriage from 1 Corinthians 7:1-5. I received some very favorable comments from people I respected … but then got a phone call from one of the senior adults telling me that other seniors were going to boycott that series on marriage because they didn’t like me speaking so frankly about sex. How can you win? In the end, you have to do what God tells you to do … and trust that God’s people will go with you.
When you speak about the NT model, remember that Paul was a church planter and functioned as a pastor. He wrote the book of 2 Corinthians to defend himself against the criticisms of believers in Corinth. If you haven’t read that book lately, it’s very instructive and shines a light on pastor-parishioner problems in our day as well. These problems have always been with the church.
Thanks again for writing! I wish you the happiest of Easters.
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It was very hard for me to read this. Our family works hard in wherever God puts us and the church (read Body of Christ and God) is always first. The worst our family has ever been hurt was by a pastor. He is evil as is his wife. To say there are no evil pastors, that’s hard for me to read. Our family was torn apart by one. Our son lied to and manipulated by one. We lost relationship with our son and may never get him back. Three elders backed us. They were pushed out of the church by lies and deceit. It was taken before a board of elders in some other churches. Our then pastor lied and manipulated to get the “case” turned towards him. How do I know this? One of the elder/pastor on the board told another elder/pastor that joined us. And he knew it was lies and deceit. He said it had to be done to protect pastors from being hurt.
Our family is finally crawling out of some of the horrendous aftermath (an over four year battle) this put us through. And we’re crawling out without our son. With an ex pastor and family that is still ugly to us or anyone who friends us.
To stumble across this and see someone believes there are no evil pastors. Just brings the pain back.
Obviously your family has never been torn apart by one.
Or by a group he’s manipulated and they want to “protect” themselves from being hurt by the sheep.
Yes, I have been a supervisor. My husband an elder. There is evil I some of the leadership of our churches. It’s foolish and blind to not see it. And I wish I could write better and the hurt was not so near so that you could see it.
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I do believe there is evil in our churches. In fact, let me go further: many, if not most, of our churches are dysfunctional and sick. The more open and transparent they are, the healthier they are. The more secretive and closed off they are, the more unhealthy they are.
I just don’t like labeling people as being “evil.” Yes, they commit evil deeds. But I don’t believe that makes the person committing the deeds evil incarnate.
Lying is evil. It’s wrong. It’s to be condemned. And some pastors lie … in the pulpit, in board meetings, in private conversations. Personally, I believe that if pastors lie in public, they should be removed from office. If people don’t trust their pastor, his ministry is finished.
Have I ever been torn apart by a pastor? One of my pastors was involved in multiple cases of sexual immorality, but few knew it at the time. He resigned. Did that make him evil? No. He committed evil deeds.
Scripture says to restore believers who commit evil, not to destroy them. And that’s where I’m coming from.
I’m sorry for what you experienced, but I believe that this situation is going to work out for God’s glory and your good. It’s not over yet.
Jim
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I feel my response was too emotional based. I hope the deep emotion in my heart didn’t come across, but I wanted to apologize in case it did.
It’s far too hard to condense what happened in 5 years into one blog response. I can tell you 9 elders (at last count and most not from our ex-pastor’s church) have called our ex-pastor to repent and reconcile with us. He refuses. A professional Christian conciliator was called in. He has refused him three times. And we did everything to the best of our human ability to be Biblical. An elder that helped us walk this helped us walk through Matthew 18. Our ex-pastor said it wasn’t worthy of Matthew 18. My husband and I took a series of classes on church conflict and reconciliation.
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I just wrote a reply to your comment, and I can’t find it anywhere! This is the first time this has ever happened to me. I’m going to send you this reply and see what happens. If it goes through, I’ll write you again.
Jim
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Thanks for reading my article and writing. Let me tell you why I wrote what I did.
I don’t believe there are evil pastors. There are pastors who commit evil deeds. If they are persistent and impeachable, they need to repent and leave the ministry completely.
But what happens in many churches is that a pastor is labeled “evil” by somebody that doesn’t like him. The pastor’s mistakes are exaggerated and elevated to impeachable offenses. Then that individual or group feels justified in saying or doing anything to the pastor … including committing evil deeds themselves … to force the pastor to leave, or to destroy his career and family. It happens all the time.
In my book Church Coup, I cite a study that concluded that when a pastor is forced to leave a church, 45% of the time it’s due to a faction within the church, while 7% of the time, it’s due to the pastor’s misbehavior. So it’s 6 1/2 times more likely for a pastor to be forced to leave for political/power reasons than anything he did wrong. I know many pastors … wonderful, godly men … who have been forced to leave their position as pastor, almost always due to church politics. And for the most part, these men do not believe they can ever enter pastoral ministry again. Their hearts are too wounded.
In your case, if you and your group followed a biblical process, then you did what was right, and you can’t control the pastor’s responses. In my case, the church board did not follow a biblical process … which was specified in the church’s governing documents … and ended up causing great damage to everyone involved.
If those 9 elders called your former pastor to repent and reconcile, that’s rare. If that happened in my case, I would welcome that overture. I don’t know why your former pastor won’t forgive and reconcile. Did the conflict in your church destroy his career? Tarnish his reputation? Harm his marriage? Damage his wife and kids? That’s usually what happens in these cases.
My suggestion is to have someone who is in your church and is still friends with the pastor to contact him and lay out the advantages of going through a reconciliation process. That person should say, “Here is how this would help you. Here is how this would help us.” Make it mutually beneficial.
In my own case, this is what I long for and pray for. And I pray that your former pastor will forgive and reconcile as well.
Thanks again for writing!
Jim
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I know what Susan is feeling. I still have friends who have still not left the church who are going through heartaches now. This Christian lady tried several times to have a reconciliation meeting with this pastor – he refused. Once he wanted the the eldership to accompany him. 5 men vs 1 woman in a reconciliation meeting? It is so cowardly, and lacking in love. I know ex-elders who have approched the pastor for reconciliation – all without success. Even when he says all is forgiven, within weeks he would use the sermons to put down the same person. His approach to conflict is denial or fight to drive non supporters out of ‘his’ church.
I left when a pastor advised me to leave, otherwise stay and fight. If he has not changed in 10 years, he will not change now. I chose to leave as there are much better ways to spend our time – serving God in other areas instead of serving the church institution.
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I’m unclear if you and Susan are talking about the same pastor or a different pastor. Would you be willing to make that clear?
What was the nature of the “reconciliation meeting?” To say, “There’s a rift between us … and I’m sorry?” Or to list all of the pastor’s faults and shortcomings?
Concerning the pastor wanting five elders and the pastor to meet with the one woman … it all depends upon the nature of the situation. If she wanted to apologize for something, the elders wouldn’t be needed. If she wanted to criticize the pastor or make charges against him, sometimes the best place to do that is in an official board meeting. Early in my ministry, a friend whom I loved went to a board meeting and had a list of complaints against me. The board stood behind me, and he left the church the next day. There was nothing wrong with that situation … that’s what he wanted to do. He was upset that I disagreed with him about an issue, and he felt I had no right to disagree with him.
But it’s wrong to use sermons to “put down” someone from the church. It’s cowardly … unprofessional … and counterproductive. When pastors do this, they are cutting their own throats.
Most pastors do not handle conflict well. There is virtually no training in seminary in conflict management. But most lay people don’t handle conflict well, either. That’s one of the reasons why I write this blog … to shed some light on situations that frequently only produce heat.
Please feel free to interact with me on this topic.
Jim
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I’m sure it’s a different pastor as I don’t know Susan personally.
The reconciliation meeting was to clear the air and put on the table issues on both sides. Although I do know this lady and the issue is not on her side. She humbled herself and took the initiative to meet over coffee with the pastor seeing he was unwilling to address the issues nor even speak with her.
I think that seminary not teaching how to handle conflict is not a good reason why pastors don’t handle conflict well. I think it’s the person’s maturity. All it takes is a little humility and a fear of God. Seminary training usually teaches the head and not the heart I think, hence we have graduates coming out with heads filled with knowledge but their hearts remain unchanged.
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I believe the maturity issue cuts both ways. A church can have a mature pastor with an immature board, or an immature pastor with a mature board, or both groups can largely be immature. But the fact remains: most pastors don’t handle conflict well.
Is it temperament? 75% of all pastors are feelers, not thinkers. Is it a lack of skills? Partly. Maybe a lack of practice? Possibly.
I was a pastor for 36 years. When people came to me with a concern … in a non-accusatory tone … I listened, tried to understand them, and if necessary, tried to change. But if they came in anger, with inflammatory language, while making threats, I usually had a different response. Many people wait until they’re really upset before they approach a pastor, and that’s one reason issues do not get resolved.
Both pastors and lay leaders should use love first. When love has been tried but doesn’t work, one party may have to go to power. But sometimes pastors and/or lay leaders go to power first, and when that happens, the result is not optimal.
Seminary fed both my head and my heart. I loved learning and growing in my faith. Sometimes we have to unlearn some things we learned in seminary before God can really use us, but much of what seminary teaches is valuable. I did take a course in conflict management in seminary, and it was helpful, and then earned a doctoral degree in church conflict, so I do know something about the field.
And when pastors contact me, either because they’re in trouble with their church, or because they were forcibly terminated, they often ask, “Why didn’t seminary prepare me better for handling conflict?” Many pastors are naïve about the tactics that lay people use against them, and can’t believe that Christians are capable of such hatred against them.
Yes, some pastors are immature, and proud, and stubborn, and resistant, and insensitive … and on and on. But please don’t blame the pastor for everything. Remember: Jesus was perfect, innocent of all the charges against Him, and yet He was accused of crimes He did not commit, and then executed. This happens all too often with pastors. I know … firsthand.
Jim
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I could believe that many times a pastor is forced to leave a church it’s not because of the pastor’s misbehavior. Our circle of friends includes several pastors, elders and deacons. I’ve seen the struggle pastors live under up close and personal. And I can see that when a member brings something against a pastor all of the other pastors’ first reaction will be to believe that it’s not his fault. And I’m sure that’s what made our situation so difficult. In fact, one of the elders that helped us works for pastors in our denomination. This elder said in his many years of doing this job he has never sided with anyone other than the pastor. Our situation was the first time he had ever gone against a pastor.
I am trying to not give identifying details to my story. I wouldn’t want anyone to recognize it. Our situation was taken before a group of men in authority over our pastor and was horribly handled by men doing evil deeds. We finally knew that we had done all we could do and had to walk away. It was a deeply hard, depressing time for us. We were wounded yet God gave us the Grace of Godly men within these groups that comforted us, guided us gently, let us know we weren’t crazy and tried to fight the evil that was present. I pray that God brings this man to repentance. I’ve prayed for him and his family more times than I can recall.
As for the 9 men, he has turned away from every one of them. A couple of them he refuses to talk to at all. The others he holds at arms’ length and has only contact with them he can’t avoid. Three of the church’s 5 elders and the only deacon left the church over our conflict. All of them tried to reconcile with him. He refuses to with all of them. The only elders that are left are the pastor and a man he’s related to.
His church continues with a group of people that know nothing true of our situation.
Is this man evil? Maybe it’s easy for me to say yes because our family has been very deeply hurt by him and his family. I guess I’d have to know the definition of evil…? Is Righteous someone who’s saved and evil someone who isn’t? If so, I’d have to say he’s evil. We are not the first family he has hurt in this same/similar way. At one point I had a list of 10 families in differing degrees. The others just walked away and didn’t contest him in any way-other than another group that also took him to a governing body many years ago. (Although people do ‘know’ about him. We have heard a handful of people-the details of two come to mind-that said “oh, no…not again”). We had interest in trying to reconcile to protect the church (the Body of Christ) and for the Glory of God. And we had hope that he would never hurt a family in this way again. And, of course, we wanted to restore relationship with our son. But, we have done what God has called us to. We feel our job is complete. We completed Matthew 18 (and not just three simple steps…some at multiple levels).
Did we apologize? For everything we could think of. We asked him numerous times to help us understand what we had done wrong so we would be able to apologize. He always refused to answer that question.
My situation is different than InvisibleChurch 101
Jim, I’m sorry those that you have sacrificed so much for have hurt you. That does sadden me. But, please know there are pastors that don’t have heart that you do
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Is it possible that you were dealing with a pastor who was a sociopath? Sociopaths commit evil deeds but feel no anxiety beforehand and no guilt afterward. They have a conscience but don’t listen to it. It doesn’t affect them. They can be cruel and just want to win in all their relationships. They lie and never assume responsibility for anything they’ve done.
I served with someone I suspected was a sociopath many yeas ago, and he lied, lied, lied … all the time … to everybody. He enjoyed getting into trouble and then figuring out how to get out of it. When I confronted him about some issues, he had no concept of ethics or right and wrong.
Four percent of the population fit this description, and some are bound to worm their way into the pastorate. You can’t reconcile with them because they don’t understand right and wrong.
I’d encourage you to go online and look at the symptoms of anti-social personality … or sociopathy … and then see if anyone has written about sociopathic pastors. You just might find some information that will help you put the pieces together.
Write back and let me know what you find.
Jim
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Read several articles. Yes, that explains him fairly well. But, it actually explains his wife better. I’ve never known such hate from anyone before let alone a friend. However, after we were out we realized we weren’t really their friends. Even reading about sociopaths explains that-how we were used.
I just continue to pray for them when called to. I’ll admit there are times I’ve asked God to give me love for them so I could pray for them!! I hate seeing the harm it’s doing though-to the Body, to this local church, and to their children and grandchildren. Very sad…
Not sure you’ve convinced me he’s not evil, though 🙂 I’m sorry. I do not want to offend
I don’t have it out for pastors. My husband being an elder and being close friends with a few pastors shows me how hard it is for them and their families. I do have a tenderness for the lives pastors lead.
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Maybe we could put it this way. Some people are victims of the evil one. And it’s possible to view someone as being evil compared to the other people you know, but not compared to people like murderers, rapists, and kidnappers.
Nothing you’ve written me has offended me. Maybe if I were in your situation, I’d agree with you.
But we can say this: sociopaths are sick, but don’t know they are sick. And they do SEEM evil. Are they beyond redemption? They certainly don’t think they do anything wrong, so they never seek help for their “problems.” In that sense, they may be described as evil.
I’m sorry you went through this long ordeal. I’m writing a book designed to help church decision makers determine whether or not they should terminate a pastor, and if so, how they should go about it. I do have a small section on sociopaths. Most Christians don’t think in psychological terms … only spiritual terms … and so they never figure out what’s going on.
God bless you as you and your family heal!
Jim
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I agree with Susan, my family have been dedicated to the Church and Ministry for nearly all of are lives ( I was born in the church ) . And a minister has caused sooo much pain and division it has been simply the worst WORST I’ve ever experienced in my entire life. Manipulation of the truth , gossip, and constant contention, turning families apart and hostility came from someone in leadership out of nowhere. Always seems to be on edge and if you say the wrong thing or if he misunderstands he will blow up against people in many cases who haven’t even done anything. The words are deeply hurtful and personal and serve to no edification. Nothing of this nature is done in meekness. I’m just so tired of these websites that always blame people. When there needs to be some real help out there for people hurt by minister. And I’m not talking about a simple offense or something like they didn’t like a sermon. I mean slandering the names of families to other church members , dividing families, spreading untruths, basically tearing the fabric of someone’s whole life apart. It feels as if you are someone who is aware of these things and voices it is in danger of this type of attack. Some people cant leave the church and cant talk to anyone because there is no one “above” the minister. SO people are stuck in an emotional gridlock and in some cases can lead to suicide. I feel like any comment that tries to address this issue is pushed aside and taken lightly and the response is well what about the minister? Dont get me wrong the church should not talk about or disrespect a minister. But if something is done to hurt a member or member of the congregation there is no way out or way to find comfort, where a minister will at least have some supporters in the congregation no matter what and can possibly move on with their life. I just think this is an issue that needs to be addressed and is taken lightly, some ministers REALLY destroy peoples lives and there seems to be no one talking about it or at least showing care. Just simply look the other way just as many of the church member do when a incorrect minister sanders their name or destroys their reputation.
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Hi Timothy, I take what you write very seriously. And I agree with you – there are pastors who do evil things. The article you read acknowledges that.
One article I wrote deals with pastors who are dictators. It prescribes a course of action that might be helpful for your leaders. Here’s the article:
https://blog.restoringkingdombuilders.org/2018/07/27/my-pastor-is-a-dictator/
Let me ask you several questions about your situation:
*What do the lay leaders of the church think about the pastor’s behavior? Do you have elders or deacons as your governing board members? If so, what are they doing about the pastor’s behavior?
*The pastor seems like he’s emotionally unwell. How long has his behavior been like this? Is he under a great deal of stress at home? Does he suffer from anxiety or depression?
*If he does suffer from anxiety, does it manifest itself through controlling behavior? Pastors who try and control everything that happens inside their church are highly anxious individuals. When a pastor is anxious, he makes the entire church anxious, and conflict usually breaks out. A healthy leader brings the anxiety level of the congregation down. An unhealthy leader raises the anxiety level.
Timothy, when there is a problem with a pastor in a church, much of the time, it’s because people in the church who are unhappy with the pastor don’t approach him in a loving, biblical manner.
But having said that, I believe that more and more pastors in our day are unhealthy, especially when they are under great stress like we’re seeing right now with Covid inside our churches.
Covid has been creating financial problems in many churches because so many Christians aren’t going to church and therefore aren’t giving … or because many churchgoers have lost their jobs. I was a pastor for 36 years and I can’t imagine how tough it would be to be a pastor in 2021. That’s not an excuse for your pastor’s behavior. I’m just trying to say that these are very trying times for church leaders … especially because we don’t know when all the churches in our country will be able to open again.
I guess what concerns me the most about your note is that you seem to feel helpless right now. But you do have the power to make some decisions about your future in that church.
If you’d like to discuss your situation further, please email me at jim@restoringkingdombuilders.org and we can set up a time to talk.
Thank you for reading my article and for writing me, Timothy. May the Lord give you grace and mercy during this difficult time.
Jim Meyer
Menifee, CA
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