I wanted to walk out of church last Sunday morning.
All because of a song.
During last Sunday’s praise and worship time at the church Kim and I have been attending, I became very uncomfortable because we kept repeating the same phrase while singing a popular worship song called “King of My Heart.”
Two Sundays ago, the worship team led the congregation in singing this song.
And I noticed that one phrase was repeated 22 times:
“You are good, good, oh” … which means we sang the word “good” 44 times.
Then last Sunday, they sang the song once more! (As the song was starting, I turned to Kim and said, “Oh, no, not again.”)
Just in case singing this phrase over and over was an aberration, I decided to go online and see if I could find a video of a praise and worship band singing the song.
I did.
By my count, they sang the phrase, “You are good, good, oh” 24 times … and the phrase “You’re never gonna let, never gonna let me go” 16 times … in the same song.
You might like this … but it drives me nuts … so much so that I wanted to run out of the service, get in my car, and drive … anywhere.
I remember when praise songs first came from Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa in the mid-1970s. We’d sing a song twice and some older people would get upset, claiming that singing the song several times consisted of vain repetition.
What would they think now?
In a blog that’s usually devoted to resolving conflict, I may be creating more conflict than I’m helping to resolve … but I feel strongly about this issue even though some might consider me nit-picky, ungodly, or nearly heretical.
Since this isn’t the only song that relies on the repetition of certain phrases, why are Christians writing and singing songs with such repetitive lyrics?
I don’t know … so I’m going to make three guesses:
First, we need to repeat those phrases for God’s benefit.
But God knows He’s good. He doesn’t need us to remind Him.
Yes, He likes it when we recite His attributes … whether in prayer or in song … but the biblical pattern is to recite many of His attributes at once, not just to focus on one.
For example, in 1 Timothy 1:17, Paul writes, “Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.”
Or in Jude 25, Jesus’ half-brother writes, “… to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord; before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”
But do we have biblical evidence that God doesn’t like His people repeating phrases?
In Matthew 6:7-8, Jesus said:
“And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.”
The song “King of My Heart” is certainly written as a prayer because it’s directed to God. While I don’t think that singing “You are good, good, oh” necessarily rates as babbling, the constant repetition of phrases does seem to fall into the category of “many words.”
In light of Jesus’ instructions, can we at least think twice about singing so many phrases over and over?
We also have nearly zero examples in the Bible of such repetition during worship. For example, we have 150 psalms, yet there is only one where I can detect a repetitive phrase … in Psalm 136 … where the phrase, “His love endures forever” is found at the end of all 26 verses.
But one example hardly a pattern makes.
I tell my wife that I love her all the time, and when I do, I try and do it with a degree of creativity. But what would she think if I turned to her and said:
You are good, good, oh
You are good, good, oh
You are good, good, oh
You are good, good, oh
So why do we do that with God? Could we even be boring Him?
Second, we need to repeat those phrases for our own benefit.
When we’re singing the phrase, “You are good, good, oh” repeatedly, I wonder if we’re doing it for ourselves.
Maybe we don’t really believe God is good, but if we sing it and sing it and sing it and sing it out aloud … and loudly … maybe we’ll start believing it.
But how many times do we need to sing that phrase before we do believe it? 8 times? 12? 16?
24 times? Really?
I once attended a workshop led by one of America’s best-known worship leaders. He told us that he would initially select the songs for the following Sunday, then submit them to his pastor, who would either approve his selections or cross out certain songs and replace them with others.
The worship leader told us that the previous Sunday, the pastor had crossed out all of the songs he proposed.
This is one I’d be tempted to cross out myself.
I think the song “King of My Heart” is an okay song (my apologies if it’s one of your favorites) … but if I were pastoring again, and the worship leader proposed that song to me, I’d say, “We’re singing the phrase ‘You are good, good, oh’ a maximum of 8 times, and ‘You’re never gonna let, never gonna let me down’ 4 times, and that’s it. If you can’t live with that, we’re not going to do it.”
I banned the song “Draw Me Close to You” at my last church because I felt the song didn’t appeal to men … and that leads me to my third guess:
Third, we need to repeat those phrases so we can feel something.
And this is what I think is really going on.
Without actually saying it, I believe that in many churches, the praise and worship time is considered to be the emotional time of the service, while the preaching is viewed as the intellectual part.
So during the emotional part of the service, it’s okay for any technique to be employed just so people feel that elusive “worship high” … an indication they’ve connected with God.
And repeating a phrase is one of those techniques.
On the video I watched online of a church’s worship band playing this song, I noticed that the song started quietly … built up to a place where the singers were nearly shouting, like in a power ballad … and then ended quietly.
Everyone had their eyes closed. Some of the singers were going through various bodily gyrations with their hands raised.
The purpose of the song didn’t seem to involve reciting truth, but inciting feeling.
Could we be using phrases like mantras? Certainly transcendental meditation relies upon the repetition of words and phrases.
In his book Why Men Hate Going to Church, David Murrow contrasts “old worship” (the kind many of us grew up with) with “new worship” (what he calls P&W … praise and worship):
“The old worship was formal, corporate, and emotionless. The new worship is informal, individualistic, and touchy-feely. The old worship was about coming together to extol God; the new worship is about coming together to experience God. The target of worship has fallen half a meter – from the head to the heart.”
Maybe, as Murrow says, I respond negatively to songs like this because I’m a man. He believes that praise and worship music “has harmed men’s worship more than it has helped.” Murrow writes:
“Before P&W, Christians sang hymns about God. But P&W songs are mostly sung to God. The difference may seem subtle, yet it completely changes how worshipers relate to the Almighty. P&W introduced a familiarity and intimacy with God that’s absent in many hymns.” (“In the Garden” being a noted exception.)
Murrow then summarizes his observations:
“With hymns, God is out there. He’s big. Powerful. Dangerous. He’s a leader. With P&W, God is at my side. He’s close. Intimate. Safe. He’s a lover.”
Murrow then puts his finger on how many men feel … including me:
“The great hymns summon men to the battlefield – but many of today’s P&W songs seem to be summoning men to the bedroom. Some contain man-love imagery that’s plainly uncomfortable for men…. Lovey-dovey praise songs force a man to express his affection to God using words he would never, ever, ever say to another guy. Even a guy he loves. Even a guy named Jesus.”
His conclusion:
“The Bible never describes our love for God in such erotic terms. The men of Scripture loved God, but they were never desperate for him or in love with him. Men are looking for a male leader – not a male lover.”
My own view of worship is that:
*Every song should start with biblical truth and that our emotions should be a response to that truth. There should never be a time when we’re simply emotional without engaging our minds.
One passage that can give us guidance is 1 Corinthians 14, where the context is public worship.
Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 14:15, “So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.”
He adds in 14:19, “But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.”
And then he adds in 14:20, “Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults.”
*The preaching time should also be characterized by biblical truth first, emotion second. As Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones used to say, preaching may be defined as “logic on fire!”
I’ve heard some mindless sermons that simply tried to engage people’s emotions, but also I’ve heard plenty of sermons that espoused truth but lacked any semblance of passion.
We need truth first … followed by emotion … in all of our worship experiences.
I love many … not all … of the old hymns, and I also love many of the newer praise and worship songs … although I have a bias for the songs from the 1990s.
But as I get older, I have to admit, I’m leaning more toward hymns with rich theology … and away from newer songs that are more emotional and repetitive.
_______________
My wife and I recently perused the book Hymns: Inspiring Stories About 600 Hymns and Praise Songs, written by William J. Petersen & Ardythe Petersen.
I’d read aloud the stories behind the writing of some of the songs to my wife, and then without looking at the lyrics, we’d just start singing them … including some I haven’t sung for 50 years.
And we’d cry …. and barely be able to get through some of them.
We know those songs so well because we sang them so many times in the past, even if we haven’t sung them for decades.
But those songs rarely if ever repeated the same phrase over and over again … unless we were singing “Deep and Wide” while using motions.
How about you? Do you like singing the same phrases over and over?
And if so, how much is too much?
I’m curious.
Music played in churches is a tough topic. There is often conflict in churches over music. People will choose a church by the style of music that is played. I believe this is because the style of music a person prefers is so very personal. And as we get older, many of us long for the music of our youth and have a hard time with newer styles. It is not uncommon for me to hear an older person say that they wished we played more hymns in church, while a younger person wants to hear songs by Toby Mac.
What I think would be interesting would be to find out if the majority of attendees felt the same way you did, and just did not say anything to the pastor.
I agree that worship songs of any style should not have “romantic” bent to them…I know the song you mentioned, and even as a woman I felt very uncomfortable when it was played in church. I have not heard it played in many years. It just is not appropriate on any level.
As far as repeating lyrics, I can’t really put a number on it. I think it depends on the song, the venue, and if it is just too long or too much, and that level is simply just different from person to person. I just “know” when I have had enough. And there are some songs, such as “Every Praise” when I never feel that way because it is joyful and uplifting.
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Ce Ce, thanks for your excellent and intelligent response to my article. I was talking with my daughter Sarah many months ago, and I asked her, “Why are so many churches doing songs that last eight to ten minutes each?” Her reply? “Hillsong.” Evidently they’re having a huge influence over worship leaders and therefore worship services. I think this is a mistake because I don’t think churches should have cookie-cutter services, but many churches choose to follow others that seem to be “successful.”
I’m okay with edgier styles of music if the lyrics are good, but too many of them come across as either generic (little thought or creativity to the words) or senseless.
Our daughter attends a church in Northern California where I just love the music. The songs are lyrically rich … far more than the “God is good, God is great, God is gracious” kind of lyric … and yet very singable. The songs seem to come from a completely different tradition, and they’re not only meaningful, they’re moving. I wish I could find a church down here who does that kind of music.
The key to the appropriateness of music in any church is to see how many people are actually singing. In my case, I won’t sing any lyrics that are biblically or theologically inaccurate (we sang a biblically inaccurate lyric at the same service where we did 22 “God is good, good, oh” phrases) or that require me to become strictly emotional and turn off my brain.
My son, who is a fine Christian, threatened to stop going to church when his church kept doing a song that mentioned the smell of Jesus’ fragrance. As a man, he didn’t want to sing it, yet didn’t want to say anything negative to anyone. If you criticize the music, you can easily get labeled as “unspiritual.”
When I was a pastor, I made my feelings about music known either during our planning meetings before the service, or in our written evaluations the day after the service. That gave us two checks on everything that was sung. I somehow doubt that most churches do any evaluation of the music anymore.
I love all kinds of music, and even listen to George Beverly Shea sometimes. I love the old hymns, and I also like some newer songs, but I feel that the newer songs largely sound the same. Maybe it’s just my age.
As a counterbalance to the article I just wrote, I’m thinking about sharing a few stories about how some hymns were written. Many of them are very moving and should be included in worship services today.
Thanks again for writing!
Jim
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I agree!
Repeating the lyrics is tied to emotions, it feels like chanting.
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Thanks for your comment, Michelle. I hadn’t thought of using the word “chanting,” but I think you’re right, sometimes it feels that way. Hope you’re doing well!
Jim
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I’m coming in a bit late here but actually found your comments as I did a search for this very topic — repetitive lyrics in praise/worship music. Why? Because last night as I stood w/my two teenagers in church, I suddenly decided midstream that I was bored, yes BORED, with singing the same few lyrics of a song over & over! And it occurred to me to look around and, yep, everybody else looked bored too. No wonder people stand there not singing and looking so unamused, as though they were at a CONCERT being entertained rather than singing themselves and actively participating in the service. Yes, perhaps that simple lyric would be fine once or twice, but when it is repeated multiple times it loses its significance and is just meaningless words. Granted, I am not a “young person” but, hey, I have teenagers and I keep up just fine with them and can tell you all about the latest cool singers. And I, too, love ALL kinds of music. I suppose that is exactly why I appreciate traditional hymns — they have several verses, all different, and the lyrics are generally have a depth & richness to them that is sorely lacking in the new praise & worship music. I guess in the era of dark churches and light shows, fog machines, etc., this is par for the course but I do agree that these simple, redundant lyrics are more about making US feel good and whipping people into an emotional state than about glorifying God.
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Back in the 1970s, when praise songs and choruses first came out of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa,
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Thanks for your comment! Based on 40+ years of watching worship trends, I think the repetitive lyrics are designed to help us feel something … to connect with God in some way. Unfortunately, they have the opposite effect with many of us … and I agree with you 100% on the hymns!
Jim
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It is such a relief to see someone articulate the same thoughts that I have often had about modern repetitive P&W songs, and to do so in a gentle, thoughtful, and scripture-based way.
My thinking – when there are so many good things to say, and sing, about our wonderful God, why would you need to repeat the same thing 24 times?
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John, we’re in agreement on this topic. When I’m in church and I can tell that a song’s lyrics are going to be repeated over and over, I just don’t sing. Based upon the response of most worshipers, they’re not singing all that much, either. I wish pastors would take a greater role in the selection of the songs on Sundays. I always did, feeling that I was responsible before God for the entire service. Thanks for reading!
Jim
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Ugh…not only do I find the repetition of “praise chants” soul searing and cringe worthy, the extreme volume that these mindless catterwalling sessions are blasted takes the auditory torture to a whole other level. Their justification? “Well, the 4 seraphim say, ‘Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty’ day and night.” Ugh… where does it say that WE are supposed to do the same thing? No where! There is only one — ONE Psalm that has this kind of repetition, but the repeated chorus comes after different phrases, which makes it bearable. Modern worship, so-called, is seeker sensitive and geared toward entertaining the goats. Real saints loath it, in my opinion. I have absolutely NO problem with instruments being used to accompany our voices in song, but the clanging noise and laser light show is beyond needless and is an exercise in worldly emotional manipulation. Rock stars know that they can whip a crowd into a dangerous emotional frenzy through group hypnosis achieved by repetition in beat and lyrics. The rock star can control a whole stadium full of people and make them do what they normally wouldn’t do out of the hypnotic state they are put into. I encourage you to research that.
That is why Hillsong has brought an evil curse, and a spiritual blight into what should be a means of worshiping our God not only in Spirit, but also in truth! I want nothing to do with this darkness hidden by false light.
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Thanks for your thoughts, Heather. I resonate with them! Last night, my wife and I attended a concert performed by several famous folk singers. They sang their political songs and then made sure to teach them to us so we had to sing the words back to them. While that kind of thing is in the folk tradition, it’s also, as you say, highly manipulative. (I didn’t sing most of their songs.) I would say the vast majority of Christians will go along with almost anything in a worship service because they’re being responsive and submissive … both spiritual traits … but like you, the repetition not only bores me, but makes me suspicious. When I think of Hillsong … and I do that as little as possible … I think of singers bouncing up and down and running around the stage. I’m sure King David did that when he sang to the Lord … just can’t quite locate the passage …
Jim
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I’m young; I like music to be loud and upbeat; and I enjoy modern worship songs far more than hymns. I like to sing to God rather than just about God. But the repetition goes too far for me as well. It doesn’t make the song more emotionally engaging; it does the opposite. I find it distracting to repeat the same 2 lines over for 10 minutes and after a few repetitions I do just stop singing. And I’ve noticed that a lot of other people do too and it’s then just the worship team sort of off in their own little repetitive world while the congregation just kind of waits for them to get to another song. You’d think the worship leaders would notice that the volume suddenly increases when they finally stop a round of repeating and move on to begin an actually singable song. And it is really disappointing when they finally start into a song that I know and love to sing and then just repeat the chorus 10 times and completely skip all of the verses 😦
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Thanks for writing, Mich. Even though I’m probably older than you, I don’t mind if a song is loud and upbeat as long as the lyrics are biblically-based and intelligent. I can’t think of one instance in my life where I repeat the same words over and over to someone … not to my wife, nor my children, not even to my dog. So why would I want to repeat the same words incessantly to God Almighty? The reason many worship leaders don’t notice whether or not people are singing is because they have both eyes closed while they’re leading worship. But how can they gauge the effectiveness of their leading worship if they don’t know how the congregation is responding to them? Hopefully churches will begin to make the necessary corrections in the days ahead. Thanks again!
Jim
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I played various instruments while at my church over 20 years. It wasn’t until the changing of the old pastor to the new young one that the music drastically changed. After the new pastor was there for a year he got his best friend from bible college on as associate pastor. No alarms went off for me yet I really enjoyed the preaching and the pastors. Now comes the new worship leader… same bible college credits. Now we have a song leader of our “mega church” that regularly is on stage in sandals and ripped up jeans playing these songs that I call 7/11 songs. 7 words repeated 11 times. I started hearing people comment to me, why don’t we do at least some of the regular songs. When I brought that concern up to our new worship leader I was met with rather cold and harsh statements about being relatable to the public. I asked what about being in the world but not “of” the world. All of this was a conversation behind closed doors just the two of us. So over the next two months I went from playing every Sunday to not asked at all. This is after decades of service and I would think if I wasn’t “good enough” I would have been told sooner since this is a 2k plus each Sunday church. So I now consider myself as churchless. I can’t in good conscience sit in the service and feel the pull to serve with the gifts God gave me. I also can’t in good conscience sing songs from Hillsong, Jesus Culture, and others that totally drive income to churches, loose term, that are not biblical. I will stop my rant here before I start chasing rabbits.
Gregg
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Hi Gregg, I am so sorry for what happened to you. The music leader sounds insecure to me, confusing your discomfort with the music with what he may have perceived as insubordination or undermining. (Just a thought: another way to handle such a situation would be for you to encourage those who didn’t like the music to each contact the music leader personally so you weren’t the one who represented their complaints.) The worship leader’s dress might be common today – I don’t know – but it certainly shows a large degree of disrespect for those who are older and find such dress alarming and distracting. But the 7/11 songs, as you call them, are, in my view, an affront to God and a colossal waste of time. The mind-numbing repetitiveness of the lyrics must bore God, not please Him. It’s an attempt to feel something, to have some sort of an experience, but I strongly question if it’s a biblical experience. I would encourage you to find a church where you like both the music and the preaching. That might take a while, but there are some fine churches out there. When you sense that God is leading you to a church, then talk to their worship leader and see if you might be able to audition for them and play on their worship team. You may not be able to play every Sunday, but if you can use your gifts and be supportive of the church’s mission and leadership, you’ll be much more content. Thanks for reading and writing!
Jim
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You nailed it. Expresses well what I continually think. Love your insights. It grieves me that people equate music with praise and worship. They are not synonymous. Prayer, adoration of God and the way we live as Christ’s followers are also an offering of worship. Romans 12:1.
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Carol,
Thanks for reading and commenting on something I wrote nearly three years ago. We can do much better. I still think most churches sing half an hour because they hired a “worship pastor/director” and that individual equates worship with singing. But worship is far richer than merely singing! And it drives me crazy that most Christians don’t see it. Thanks for making my day!
Jim
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In response to your note above, you made my day first! So few people “get it”. Like you, I appreciate the hymns of the faith so much. They are rich in theology as well as being focused upon exalting the Lord. There have been times in recent years that I felt like getting up and walking out of church, too, because of the music. We are far too casual with our holy God. We may approach the throne of grace but let us do it in reverential awe.
Found your online article by divine providence! Keep writing. Will check out the rest of your website.
Carol
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I am sick to death of endless repetition and shallow theology. When the worship leader insists on repeating the same phrase ad nauseum, it is no longer worship. It is ANNOYING!!!! After about three repetitions, the worship leader is simply demonstrating his lack of creativity. I want meaningful songs that accurately express the greatness and glory of God that I can sing from my heart. Like you say, some of the lovey-dovey language is entirely inappropriate for worship. God created the Universe and he is the mightiest king that will ever exist. That fact needs to be acknowledged, and too many modern songs are disgustingly lovey-dovey. Lovey-dovey does not describe what our relationship with God should be. Our worship should express the greatness of God, his power, and the depth of his love for mankind. If worship becomes annoying, it is no longer worship. It becomes an impediment to our relationship with God.
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Kenneth, I agree with your sentiments completely. There is an entire industry now devoted to worship music. I have no idea what the endless repetition is supposed to convey. Are we supposed to feel something? I love the Lord but I don’t repeat the same phrase over and over to Him in prayer. Why should I do so when singing to Him? One of these days, ask the worship leader why the incessant repetition. Write down what he says and get back to me. I’d like to hear his rationale.
Jim
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he insists it’s worshipful. Somehow, he thinks that repeating the same phrase over and over makes it more worshipful. I totally disagree. He also thinks loud music is good. I told him that if you have to use earplugs, the music is TOO LOUD. He said sometimes the Holy Spirit wants the music really loud and you just have to use earplugs. Again, I totally disagree. If you have to use earplugs, the music is TOO LOUD!!!
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Pastors used to be in charge of their worship services as well as their worship leaders. Somewhere along the line, the pastors lost control of both. My wife and I attended a church for many weeks because we liked the location and the pastor but we eventually left because I couldn’t stand the worship music. The worship leader sang three songs in a row without mentioning the Father, Son, or Spirit even once. They were all “You” songs that could be sung to a lover rather than the Lord. Thanks for your thoughts!
Jim
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Completely agree. The newer, upbeat repetitious songs are too centered on the beat, our emotions and man. The older songs and hymns are more reverential and God-centered. I have often felt like running out of church in grief over the music.
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Hi Carol,
I’m okay with many contemporary songs, even if they’re upbeat, and I don’t mind being moved by a song, but the songs are just too experience-oriented for me, and the repetition is needless. If most of us are bored by repetition, how must God feel?
Jim
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